damn...all while i was out of town...sonofa!

and to ls4 and the firechicken guy...you'll be proud to know that my interum mill in my bmw is going to be powered by a holley 450 mechanical carb on a 4bbl euro 7er manifold; holley red fuel pump; rci fuel cell; and a bunch of other american shit on there too.

anyone who talks shit about the muscle car crowd can get fucked by a rottweiler in my humble opinion. bmw, mercedes, porsche, fuckinvolvopenta, you name it...they all build power the same. you do the same thing to all of them to make them more powerful. just because the block and/or crankmains look different doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot.

jason

oh and dtmcoupe,

you should probably consider the source when you and your bmw cronies are chuckling about how the ricers and hot rod crowd don't know what they're talking about. bmw owners are (generally) the most self aggrandizing, jack ass clusterfucks i've ever run into on the internet. i suppose you could toss alfa romeo owners into that list as well. either way, do realize that no matter how often you fuckers sit around and circle jerk to the bavarian autosport catalog, there are people out there who do something other than throw money at a car to make it go faster. $2500 for a six throttle intake that'll improve your power by around 20hp? now who's the idiot?

for half of the amount you paid for your car, if not far less than that, there is a bmw e12 530i owner who is running psycho fast et's with 650.5 rear wheel horsepower.

it doesn't matter what you start with. i know a guy with a 318i wrapped around an e46 m3 engine, won't turn to save it's life but it'd massacre you on the straights. track car? you'd be better off in my shoes gutting an old cheapo car and building tube from there. why cut out your suede headliner just to install an interference cage?

keep the mcoupe as-is, it'll be worth bucks in the future. build your own car, then we'll see if you're worth your salt.

jason

Quick 67,
Here is part of the article I found which is they way I have always understood it to be but your also seems to be saying the same thing except at the flywheel:

"Net horsepower, also called road horsepower, (Rhp) is a calculation where horsepower is measured after the load from a chassis and accessories. Essentially, this is the power available at the drive wheel or wheels of a vehicle. Nowadays called SAE net horsepower, it is the only method used for advertising purposes since 1972. "
Wheres the Coupe boy at?

dyno an m3/m coupe what ever you want you will not get 315/333 at the wheels....if you dont belive me lets meet up and do a dyno run (at the losers expense)

What? Your going to sell the 3.0? Give me a call when you get the "M" Coupe.

i would be down for a run, i live in oc right now and wont be living out there for a while, but i go back and fourth now and then. heres the thread if you wanna see how stupid you sound to people who know whats going on http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102019&perpage=25&pagenumber=2 and if i did "have " an 3.0 coupe it would make about 200 ENGINE where as im making 285 AT THE WHEELS WITH A DYNOJET DYNO WITH THE DYNO CHART THAT I POSTED, THE THE PRODUCT REVIEW. ITS OK I ACCEPT YOUR APPLOGY FOR BEING WRONG

man, you're right on the line of being the quintessential bmw jerkoff.

this was a simple argument. understand that we get HUNDREDS of little children claiming to drive 800 hp Veilside Supras and M5's and you name it...

Sometimes it requires us to sort the signal from the noise with some tough love. i believe you've got an M Coupe. Right on. LS4 is probably simply still pissed at you for acting like a jerkoff and running to your bmw friends yelling, 'look at the mullet wearing musclecar owner, he doesn't have vanos, he doesn't have vanos! mechanics are all idiots, etc.'

If you keep arguing and being a punkass, and calling my friend here stupid, i'll come down there to newport and skullfuck your m coupe with 383 inches of creeping death. In a JAGUAR. otherwise, why not come by here (the site) and find yourself a race or two, amicably. there are quite a few fast cars in the cv. this board can serve that purpose really well, you don't have to read hooyeah and stryker's bitch fights about who's a ricer...

jason
hangtown, ca
up here with the redneck musclecar idiots...

wtf are vanos

if you read the posts ls4 454 was the one who called me a liar, vanos is a variable cam system like vtech but its much smoother, giving as much hp/tq as possible at any rpm, where as vtec is more of an on off switch at high rpms's the s54 engine has double vanos, making the power delivery even smoother and more useful. i really have nothing against most muscle car owners, my friend has a viper gts and i know he would kill me if we raced, i have a problem with somone who dosent know what they are talking about and tries to bash me. please read through the whole 3 pages and you will see that i was acctacked and called a liar, and a bunch of other crap. ls4 454 do you have any more BRIGHT AND ACCURATE comments to make?

oh ok that makes sense then

some more comments:

1. did you not hear that we deal with a bunch of CHILDREN here who tell us about their 12986hp Supra or Skyline or DSM? we're used to the claims that you made coming from absolute idiots...it's trial by fire here. sorry if you were unjustly accused.

2. your argument with LS4 isn't much of an argument. both determinations of horsepower (SAE Net vs. DynoJet RWHP) are formulaic starting from data. neither is entirely accurate for every application. they both ATTEMPT to attain a wheel horsepower rating. both are innacurate. the dynojet is inaccurate based upon the numbers that are plugged INTO the formula, the SAE net is inaccurate based upon the FORMULA that the accurate numbers are plugged into.

if you want to argue this more, i'll get the cats down the street at DTS involved. they invited me over for a couple pre-sale test runs of dynos (they dyno a hi-po engine on every dyno they sell for run testing purposes), and i could easily run this discussion past them for an educated viewpoint from the field.

but before i do that, lets agree on the questions:

1. does SAE Net Horsepower attempt to define hp modified by accessory & drivetrain loss OR hp w/ accessory loss only?

2. if the former is true in the last question, does a dynojet rwhp dyno more accurately indicate rwhp or is the sae net formula more accurate?

3. what are the shortcomings of the dynojet rwhp dyno vs. a hydraulic engine dyno?

4. what are the shortcomings of the formuation of SAE net hp when assessing drivetrain power losses?

you add as many questions as you want and i'll ask em and post accurate answers.

enjoy your weekend! have a fun drive in that beautiful OC weather, but watch out for those nazi cops in newport.

jason

Liar? If that is what you want to call it, just calling you out on your BS. When was vanos (single or double) and VTEC (How did Honda come into a BMW discussion?) ever mentioned on any of my posts? Are you starting to grasp for straws here? Despiration setting in? Read the thread at your BMW site, ooohh, that hurts, you make me cry DT.:(
I see there are some pretty "intelligent" people there to, looks like a lot of name calling and finger pointing. I see the the "moderator" is about to close the thread because someone said shit, oh my god! Those terrible people there.
Jason has made some very good points on the hp rating and people here have found two sides of the story here on the ratings, both seem correct for what we have been saying. Your still missing your hp at the rear wheels though.

ls454 you did call me a liar on the 1st page, and vanos and vtec came into the thread when "satanismycopilot" asked "whats vanos" you should actually read a thread before you ask questions. and as for how much power im making im actually higher stock then many m3's (io was 275 at the WHEELS stock) please find me a dyno chart of a stock m3 thats putting 333 or even 300 at the WHEELS. you cant do it, but ill let you try.

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please read through the whole 3 pages and you will see that i was acctacked and called a liar, and a bunch of other crap

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and vanos and vtec came into the thread when "satanismycopilot" asked "whats vanos"

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