Yes... my fiero plans have changed... again... lol... got started on the caddy 500 swap and ended up pawning it off to a friend because i dont want a strictly straight line car... ben helped me to realize that... lol...

Ok... this post is directed mainly to jason and matt, but if anyone else can help i'd gladly accept it

Basically the plan now is to use a turbocharged and intercooled V6 in my fiero... engine options are either the 3.4L Twin Dual Cam out of older gen grand prix GTPs and Z34 luminas and monte carlos or use a 3.4L pushrod out of camaros and firebirds... I'm leaning more toward the TDC mainly because its a rever and i think will more gladly accept boost...

question number one would be... which turbo do i use? theres so damn many of them... lol... i'm lookin to run around 10-15psi and want to start spoolin boost around 2000-2500 rpms with max boost around 6500-7000rpms...

my main area of confuzion comes in when everywhere i read the Garrett T3x series turbos are too small to boost a 3.4L V6 engine and the T4x series needs to be used, yet when i plug the specs of the engine and use the custom flow files and put forced induction on there the T45s are generating less horsepower at 12psi than the TB301... I know desktop dyno 2000 can just be screwed up, but i figger it would be at least somewhat accurate? Also it seems the less flow thru the turbo the more horsepower? I figgered it'd be the opposite?

*BTW* all of these figures are taken at 12psi with a 50%efficient intercooler... speaking of which... about how efficient would a ram air, air to air intercooler be with a fan sucking air thru it a-la porsche whale tail style? I have no clue so i figured 50% to be a decent number, is that too generous?

also pressure ratio... do you want that to be far from 1 or close to it?

from my figurings that i've gathered from screwin around with things in Desktop Dyno you want the flow and surge flow pretty low, efficiency high and pressure ratio around 1.8?

can y'all point me to any books or web-sites (web-sites preferably as i will be broke as soon as i buy this engine and turbo... lol) that have a lot of info on figuring out which turbo is best for your application and how it works and all that good stuff... I know how the good ol' roots blowers work and i know the principle behind the turbo, but i'm new to all this fuel injection stuff... also how do you figure out what size injectors to use? i know its REALLY bad when you have a turbo and you run your fuel lean, and it seems 42#ers are the norm for 14lbs of boost?

hehe... been doin carbs and old skewl roots blowers forever... guess i need to get a book and learn all this turbo and fuel injection stuffs... lol...

Also think i'll be having to look into the haltech engine management deals....

Thanks in advance for any help... heh...

-Daniel

email me.

jason@orionoutdoor.com

jason

Not wanting to but in here, but.... I thought I'd toss my 2 cents worth in.

Have you considered the 3.8 buick? Same motor that was the upgrade to the base v6 in camaro's. Also used in the Buick Century, and Park Ave. Used in the Pontiac Bonneville and Grand Prix GTP in natural and supercharged form. And a While while back it was used to push around a car called the Buick Grand National. (to low 13's from the factory) The engine is bulletproof and will rev with the best of them. Plus with enough boost it will pin you to the seat for an E-Ticket ride.......

Just my 2 cents worth of course.....

I dont understand why you wouldnt want to go with the s/c. We have talked about this before. It seems like it would be the best bang for your buck. There are guys runing mid 11's with this motor in a 3800 pound GTP. The DOHC 3.4 is just plain and simply a shitty engine. Belive me, i had one in a 92 Z34 5 speed. The timing belts are always snapping and the motors are electical nightmares. Go and get a complete 3800 series 2 engine with supercharger for about $1700 with computer and you will be happy. The motor with the factory S/C will push about 16 psi and Big HP without the bullshitting around with a turbo.

or he can do like quick said and go buy a complete motor w/ turbo from a Buick Grand National

Alright... hehe... i knew this was coming...

I thought about the 3800 SII SC, but it really isn't cost effective for me and its been done a BUNCH of times... the engine for the 3800 would run me around $1000-$1200 (i dont want to use the 4T60E) and the conversion parts i would need would run me another $2grand or so depending on how much i buy and how much i fab myself... also not to mention the electrical nightmare it is to integrate the OBD2 system so it'll work in the fiero.... you also have to re-burn the ecm to work with a manual tranny, which is what i want since this will be a road course car not a straight line car... basically it comes down to a friend of mine has a 3800 S2 SC in his fiero that SCREAMS, and another friend has a 400 SBC mounted longitudinally with 700+horsepower on a TH425 tranny that will KILL in the 1/4 as soon as he finishes (in the next couple weeks) and basically i want something different from them... hehe....

I see 3800 swaps all the time, and yes the deep skirt design makes it HIGHLY susceptible to boost (as per the design of the GN V6) but I want something different and I believe i can build more power with the turbo for cheaper...

as for the grand national engine.... all i have to say is good luck finding one in one piece... those things get lead-footed 'til they explode and the ones that survive are hoarded at junkyards for tons of money... or so has been my experience... also i dont know what the bolt pattern is and if it would mate up to the getrag 282 in the fiero or if i would have to fab an adapter...

the 3.4 TDC is the engine i really want to run basically because i fell in love with the Quad 4 HO in my grand am and the TDC is the V6 version of the Q4 basically and i also love DOHC engines and high revers with a good bottom end...

as for the timing belts... i've been told that they generally need to be replaced around every 30k miles or so to remain reliable, altho it is a non-interference (or is it interference?) engine so if the timing belts snap you won't kill yer valves on the pistons because theres cleareance....

i'll drop you an email jason...

-Daniel

GTP - I was just re-reading your post... and you can't use the factory ecm that comes with the 3800, you have to have one custom burned 'cuz it dont run well at all with the OEM one especially with the 5spd...

-Daniel

it's not highly susceptable, it's compatible. ;-)

email me, i can get you all of the parts for this work. if you email me i'll give you my phone number and we'll talk on the phone, it's just plain easier.

jason

susceptable... compatible... its all the same

email sent... heh... or will be sent as soon as i write it (which i am doing right after i post this)

-Daniel

definately go with the grand national motor if you can get ahold of one. turbo>sc. everyone of my friends are forced induction. some sc some turbo. i love on the turbo that if you ever want to go a little faster all you have to do is push a button as where w/ the sc we always have to change the damn pulley. pain in the ass. from what i gathered from youre original post i would say that 600cc injectors would be great. i personally would go with 1000cc just if i ever wanted to upgrade. the problem w the bigger turbo is that it would be alot harder for that particular motor to get it to spool. i would go w a t3/t04e 63 trim. im running that turbo on my integra. rev hard precision ball bearing. havnt dynoed but can easily guess the fwhp at 290-300. engine management and a great tune is one of the most important things when running a turbo. i run hondata. not sure what you would have to run but im sure w alittle research you can fing out. anyway ive got to get to bed soon if you have any other ?'s ill check the thread tomarrow. if there is something that i dont know i know someone who knows so feel free, i love helping people out .

first thing ya gota do is get that porsche off there, a honda owner doesnt deserve to have that on there

Honda ownz your sorry ass chadwick

-Ben

bwaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

the only good a honda is for is running a 400k gt3 off the track at willowsprings acupple months ago

my dad owns a porche man. and im sorry if i offended you but i love porches and to be honest my integra is one of those integras. i also dont own a skyline or an ae86 for that matter so would you like me to change my sig as well