Another thing, when you get that far with a honda, how much is left? with some more work to a mustang, youll be in the 10's. how much more would it take for a honda to do that?

Who cares man. This is getting way to far. We work on imports and sport compacts because we like them, not because we think they're better. Yes, a V8 has more potential and can go faster for cheaper in most cases and that's fine. We just work on what we like and the same goes for you domestic guys. Why can’t everyone just realize that and grow up. Lets have some mutual respect as car lovers.

-Ben

I hope your not just talking to me here!! I just stepped in at the tail end to throw in my 2 cents. Relax. We all know domestics are better. LOL J/K

In reply to:

---

In response to:

Poster: BlownGTP
Subject: Re: Went to the track Friday *pic*

Another thing, when you get that far with a honda, how much is left? with some more work to a mustang, youll be in the 10's. how much more would it take for a honda to do that?

---

"180HP at the Crank. 2100lb Car w/2.4 60ft.

There, no confusion. "

Ryan,
I was talking about the formula at the web site, not your car/post, I'm not sure what numbers it is giving you (flywheel or rear wheels).

"But I do know. Honda tells us."
Is speaking to Honda like speaking to God? Gee, I've never talked to Volkswagen before, maybe I should call them up?
It doesn't matter what anyone "tells" you, what you read in the door jamb, or what Edmunds.com says, the proof is going out and having it done for yourself so you actually know. Yes. wasting your time can be the best time. LOL

"Actually he spent $5,500 for the car as it sits. It is a 13 sec car with better tires. Not 11 year old 13" wheels.

So, $5,500 for 13's isn't bad in my book. Then $3,000 more for low 12's "
Lets keep in mind that the car hasn't run in the 13's, yet. 8 tenths is a bunch to cut down and get into the 13's, hopefully Nick will keep us posted on the updates and progress.

I don't think I've heard anyone say get rid of your import and go get a domestic. It has just been good conversation over what your spending compared to the gains acheieved in your car. There are plus's and minus's to any car, like me, I have to go through a 120+ summer weith no A/C, but that is the way I want it right now. Ya, you may have to spend more on a 4cyl car to go just as fast as a V8 car, but there may be more satisfaction in doing it.

ya the IMPORT VS DOMESTIC thing will NEVER end..... thats because everybody has to think what they like is better than what other people like... which is ignorance and stupidity... v8s and 4 cylinders are very very different kinda motor vehicles and were origionally made for very different purposes... and wherever theres a category where one domesstic is better than the import, theres always a tradeoff of another category where the import is better than the domestic and visa versa.... me personally i want 1 of each.. ... im gunna be workin on my civic, and i really wanna learn to autocross in it... and if i sell my 73 mustang i will probably wanna invest in a 5.0 mustang , which will be another fun v8 project for the strip and street. that way i can share my car and my oppinion with the import crowd and talk to them, then go home and switch cars, then go kick it with my muscle/domestic brothers. its the best of both worlds! i find it much more fun to like em all, rather than rag on and argue because u think one is better than the other!

and i have to say thanks to Pman for helpin me realize this hehe, hes tought me lots bout imports and got me interested into something i always thought i was better than, and assumed it was just "RICE". ya theres alot out there , but thats a stereotype alot of the time. rice is a mentality, not a type of car.

oh and another thing about what car is faster for how much $$$, i didnt see any of u mention where teh parts come from, and im assuming that if many performance parts u put on ur imports are comin from japan, that oughta raise the price FAR above the domestic parts bin... just thought id add that....

In reply to:

---

In response to:

Poster: VW_Nut
Subject: Re: Went to the track Friday *pic*

I don't think I've heard anyone say get rid of your import and go get a domestic.

---

Ok Nut, you want to run 14's or so for $3000? Let me share some of my bug stuff with you, the rest of you may want scroll down from this.
This is what it took me to run 16's in a '73 Super Beetle which is heavy. 1835, 041 heads (40 X 32 valves), Engle 110 cam, 44 IDF carbs, 1 1/2" header, 009 distributor and a STOCK trans with a 4.12 ring and pinion. That car ran about 16.40's.
Took the same engine and put into a '67 bug, sound familiar? And it ran a 16 flat. I never weighed the cars so i dont what the difference was but the '67 was definitly lighter, but whatever it was it was good for 4 tenths.
Now to do the samething in yours you can't even think about running the Kadrons with the single port heads, not going to happen. Stock trans, nope. So lets put this all into perspective-COST$$$$$$ You have nothing now, so.
New case $350 (Do not use the '67 case!)
machine work $300
Good heads $500-900 (at least)
Carbs $700
Cam $80
Lifters$50
Crank $250 (more for stroked)
Distributor $60
Nickel and dime bullshit $200
Trans to handle the power $800-$1200
So you are looking at least $4000 to get you faster and that may only get you into the 14's depending on the quality and combination of parts.
Now to go to the next step and get out of the 16's with the stock trans, I ran a '69 bug with the best ET of 13.50 (once, fluke?) but overall ran 13.60's to 13.70's at 97mph. What did it take?
Bigger crank $450
Better heads$650
48 IDA Webers which nowadays run $1200-$1500
Bigger header $250
Custom muffler $200
Race trans $900
And I drove it on the street everyday, until I moved down here and the summers were too hot for the motor.
Now, how fast do you want to go?

Hey Ryan and Nick,
You guys need to get together and get Nick dialed in as he is lagging some. I went and tried that calculator thing with my Chevy and it may be pretty close, I say may.
My car weighs in at 4570 with me in it and it has run a best of 14.70 without much tuning. Now my original rating on the motor was 345hp, but keep in mind this was done back in '69 or '70 when they measured these motors at the flywheel with absolutly no accessories and a header type exhaust with no mufflers, so the reading is bloated some. But the calculator comes up with 284hp for my car to go 14.70 which may be close by time you figure in drivetrain loss and the '70's BS rating system. So Nick could easily be in the 13's with some good tires, driving and favorable weather. I would find a track closer to sea level and try there.

Nick,
I like those gear ratios in that Type R trans, how tall are your tires?
Here is why I ask, my bug had a 4.12 R & P, 3.78 1st, 2.08 2nd, 1.48 3rd and 1.14 4th, and someone stole my 5th LOL
Overall the ratios are close, but I ran 24" tall tires and I went through the lights at about 6,000 rpm in 4th gear.
Incrementals:60ft-1.9, 1/8 8.7 @80mph, 1/4 13.76 @ 96.5mph.
With 26" tall slicks the 60ft was around 1.7-1.8 and the et down to 13.60's. The 24" tires were 7" wide and a soft compound for racing. I know it makes your car look odd but getting some taller front tires could do the trick nicely. Besides, the front and rear rims never match anyway, hahahahaha.

For the $3000 dollar question, take a '87 Mustang 5.0 then do the simple mod of a belt driven blower and you are already at $2500, then you have the exhaust, throttle bodies, etc. I t would fair to say for any of us that 3 grand is our minimum starting point to get us some sort of good improvement, of course the Mustang may give better results. But duh! it starts off with twice the horsepower and twice the cylinders, so its a no brainer.

Yeah, that's the prob. With 175-60-13 tires, as old as they are, there is a lot of wheel spin right now. Part is because of inexperience in this car. SO I look forward to improving. As far as the track? This track is about 45 mins from us, so It is very convient. Besides, we usually calculate the adjusted(sp?) time using the nhra calculator. So on the night I ran the 14.8, the adjusted time was actually 14.5. Not a big difference, but that could be the difference between 14's and 13's. you know.

In reply to:

---

In response to:

Poster: LS4_454
Subject: Re: Went to the track Friday *pic*

For the $3000 dollar question, take a '87 Mustang 5.0 then do the simple mod of a belt driven blower and you are already at $2500, then you have the exhaust, throttle bodies, etc. I t would fair to say for any of us that 3 grand is our minimum starting point to get us some sort of good improvement, of course the Mustang may give better results. But duh! it starts off with twice the horsepower and twice the cylinders, so its a no brainer.

---

Edited by Satanismycopilot (Fri Sep 12, 03   4:53 AM)

Wow, that shit adds up fast and sounds like everything I'm going to need. Either I will have to do some good shopping or save some extra money. I want to run down into the 13's and I want to do it right, so guess I'll get a better plan together and start from there.