Well... i am now eating my words (mainly to BlownGTP), but i got a deal i couldnt pass up... got a 3800 supercharged motor from a buick park avenue ultra for INSANELY cheap ($200 whole thing no problems) because i'm friends with one of the main people at the junkyard...

anywho...

BlownGTP - what all have you done to your motor to make your car so fast? do you know where i can get a pinup of all the wiring and such? cheapest i've found the DHP PCM is for $340 + $125 core charge. I have the tools and everything i need to build some custom headers (only ones i have found route exhaust to stock locations, and i want true dual exhaust... i am overhauling the motor and pocket-porting the heads, blower, and lower intake... should i put lower compression pistons in it or is the stock 8.5:1 good for, say, 15psi or so? stock these things have pretty beefer rods and hypereutectic pistons, correct? I'll also be using a Getrag 5spd transmission instead of the 4t60e that comes stock (or was it a 4t65e?) Can you burn your own chips for these (if you know someone with chip burners), or is ODBII make it so you can't burn your own chips? Also... how do these blowers control the amount of boost? do they have pop-off valves or anything like that? i dont know a whole lot about roots blowers.. what size pulley are you running? I was thinkin about gettin a 3.00 pulley... i'm not shootin for crazy horsepower, just around 350 or so...

i cant think of anything else right now... so.... ya...

-Daniel

WOW, nice to hear that you will be doing that. I think you will be happy with that set up. Thats about as cheap as you will get the DHP for. I was lucky enough to score a used one. Its a very nice unit and wouldnt get anything besides that. You will have to go to a dealership and have a case learn done to it once you get it. About the pistons, leave um stock. There are guys running low 12's on stock pistons, They are pretty strong. You are going to run the Getrag 5 speed? That must be the same trans that I had in my Z34. Thats a strong trans. I have never seen the 3800 mated to that trans yet. That should be intresting. The trans thats in the GTP's now is the 4t65e and there is also a 4t65HD that you can get. The boost on the blower is mainly controlled by your pulley size but there is a small bypass valve that opens and closes by vacume. It really does not control you boost. All it does is opens when it's ready to give the motor boost. Under normal driving conditions, it stays closed. Lets see, pulley size. My first pulley was a 3.4. I would recommend trying that first. I run a 3.2 for daily driving but I did use a 3.0 for my best run. I was lucky because I usually get a lot of ping with the 3.0 pulley. Conditions must have been perfect thats day. I have seen pepole knock down 13.8 passes with the 3.4. You might want to consider a modular system so that the pulleys can be swapped easy at the track or where ever you are. Install that on the blower before it goes in the car. Trust me, you will thank me later. LOL

About the wiring, Ill look into that and get back to you. I have not needed to use that for anything yet. Good luck man, Let me know if you need anything else.

whats a case learn? The getrag 5spd i'll be running is close to the one out of the Z34... the Z34 has the Getrag 284 (very rare tranny) and i'll be using the Getrag 282... both are very STRONG trannies... a lot of fiero people use the getrag, but i dont think i've ever seen a gtp using one with the l67... I've been lookin at the ZZPerformance site and i'm prolly gonna buy their modular pulley kit with a 3.3 or 3.4 pulley... ESPECIALLY in the fiero i need to do everything before it goes in the car.. LOL... not a lot of space in it... even though i have already cut the trunk completely out and i'll be relocating the battery up to the front of the car...

Have you ever heard of the "whiffle cooler?" I remember reading somethin about it a long time ago... think it was some kind of intercooler? Also, I know the blower heats up the air charge a WHOLE lot, so do you think, say, a liquid-air intercooler used as a charge-cooler would do any good? I know it wouldnt be NEARLY as efficient as one of those $1300+ intercooler systems that mount under the blower, but i was curious as to if it would help at all... I remember a few lotus supercharged vehicles with "charge-coolers", just dont remember what exactly they were...

Also, what is all this i hear about propane injection or somethin like that? I read on a GTP forum about a few people havin it and i've read about fiero ppl havin it, but what is it exactly and what does it do? i think i remembered it having something to do with cooling?

For the turbo system i was design i had incorporated a porsche-style whale tale ram air system that would force air into two air-air intercoolers which had two fans under them and CO2 jets on top of them (cools them out the ass)... would this do any good or even be worth the trouble? I would of course modify this with probably a liquid-air intercooler or air-air with the CO2 and fan on the underside pulling air through...

oh... and heres a basic question... wheres the factory red-line, where does the engine actually experience valve-float, and where is the factory rev-limitter? its been my experience that wherever the red-line is on the motor, you can go a few hundred rpm or greater beyond it with no problems, just dont do it regularly and of course i will probably also put some titanium valve-springs or something on while i have the heads disassembled and am porting them...

I rode in a friend of mine's fiero with the 3800SC with an underdrive pulley, 3.4 on the blower and TB spacer (of course with a PVC pipe CAI ) running the OEM chip exactly as it came (with 120 or so mph speed limitter) and all i can say is DAMN... in that car 1st gear seemed like its basically for looks... if he hit it hard it'd just spin the tires, but whenever he took it easy in 1st and hammered it in 2nd it would hook up and THROW your ass back in the seat HARD.... i say he needs some wider tires on the back, but the tires he has he got for free and they're kumho ecsta supra ZR tires that are real sticky (altho only 235s or so)... guess thats what you get when you mix 300or so HP and 340or so lb/ft of torque and a 2600lb car.... LOL...

heh... now if only i can get him to let me drive his car...

-Daniel

figured i should change the signature... heh...

-Daniel

From what I have been told, a case learn pretty much teaches the DHP to run with the cars sensors at the most efficent level. Its not somthing you have to do to have the car run but it is recomended so that you don't get knocks and pings. It will cost about $50. I had it done but I wasnt exactly sure what it meant.

About the intercooler, Don't even bother, I have seen guys drop $1400 on a nice one and only drop 1/10 in the 1/4. I think you would be better off trying to vool the motor as a whole rather than just the supercharger. The Propane is somthing that I was looking into also. It's a cooling thing and it's supposed to help with the knock. It didnt seem to be worth the money there either. All the real fast guys don't have any of that so i figured I didnt need it either.

Redline on the car is 5500-6000. The car runs out of breath at about 4900. The car pulls best at about 4000.

To make the car a screamer, do this
*DHP
*Modular system
*CAI (custom)
*180 T stat
*Downpipe and exhaust
*Intense 1.9 roller rockers
*Intense oil restricted pushrods
*42.5 injectors
*LS1 throttle body
*Delco 41-932 plugs

These mods would have a GTP into the 12's. That should make the fiero from hell.

Edited by BlownGTP (Wed Feb 4, 04   8:04 AM)

Hrrrmmm.... so if i can get an Air-Air Intercooler from, say, a supra for really cheap, do you think it would be worth it to run pipe to the intercooler then to a CAI? I know the supercharger heats up the air a LOT, but i was wondering if any gains from the AA intercooler would be for nil... I have access to mandrel benders and TIG and MIG welders, so the plumbing wouldnt be any problem to fab up myself...

As for downpipe and exhaust, i'm building my own custom headers and will be running the exhaust out the side of the car right behind the rear wheels out of that 1/4 panel with at MOST a hollowed out cat and some tube glass packs like cherry bombs or somethin like that... this thing will have little backpressure, and will probably be LOUD AS HELL with only 5 feet of exhaust... MAYBE....

The LS1 throttlebody, is it a PITA to wire? (altho i should be a seasoned veteran with wiring after i get this thing in the fiero, LOL) I have an L98 throttlebody that i got while i was designing the intake manifold for the turbo project that i will probably be selling now considering i dont need the two little inlet deallies... heh.... What about a Northstar throttlebody? aren't they about the same size as the LS1 TB? I can prolly get a N* or similar TB from the local junkyard for cheap... the N* seems to be a lot more common than an LS1....

i've heard a lot about the Intense cams and roller rockers and everything, but where do you get them? i dont think i saw them on the ZZPerformance site, altho i coulda just missed it or somethin...

man... if that would run a GTP into the 12's, then it should propel the 2600lb car DAMN fast...

oh... and is your Blower and lower intake ported? i read that if you dont know exactly what you're doing, you can do harm to the blower by porting it... I know how to port things and basics of fluid dynamics and flow and such, but if its easy to screw up then i'll probably just polish the ports.... I'm shootin for about 350hp to the wheels or so, which really shouldnt be hard to get...

Well, about the A to A cooler, I have never really seen anybody do it but if you can do it for cheap, I don't see the harm in trying it. Give it a try.

The LS1 throttle body sems to be the best bet. I wish I had one. I think that might be my next investment. It is a little pricey but well worth it as I have noticed. Go here, http://www.intense-racing.com/ they have everything that you could want for the motor. They even have the ported supercharger that I have. You will see what I mean about that when you get there. I went with stage 2. Oh and about the wiring on the LS1, It all plugs in real easy. There really isn't any wiring to worry about.

Do you have the motor yet? That thing should be very easy to see 350 hp with and when your done, I want a ride. LOL Or, can I drive it? LOL Anyways, stick with Intense, they are the best for this motor and the tech support is pretty good also.

I'll prolly try toe AtoA intercooler.... dont really have a dyno i can test the theory out on, but i figure it could be just an uber-cold air intake... lol...

I'll keep my eyes on the look out for LS1 throttlebodies then... heh...

Man.... Intense does have pretty much everything... lol... thats probably where i'll be ordering everything.... lol...

I got the motor last friday... It is sitting in my shed on a crate waiting for me to attack it... heh... And once i'm finished, if you're ever down south in texas drop me a line and i'd be glad to give you a ride, and we can talk about you driving hehe.... I'm not exactly sure when i'll be finished tho... Here pretty soon i'll be tearin down the top end and i'll see at that time if i need to tear apart the bottom end and re-condition everything... hopefully not... I will probably replace the O-Rings on the pistons and maybe shot-peen the rods and such... I still need to find a wiring harness and OEM ECM to use as a core for the DHP...

I'm also workin on a new way to route the supercharger belts to get the most wrap possible... i dont need to worry about dodging the A?C compressor, P/S pump, or any of that other stuff seeing as tho i'm in a fiero and dont have P/S and i dont really need A/C (even tho i'm in Texas... guess i'm just brave like that ) lol....

Oh ya.. and i'm also playing with the idea of drilling into the intake manifold and building a Nitrous Wet shot... not a real big HP shot... maybe 50-75 or so...

are all the DHP PCMs the same? I've seen a bunch of different generations and whatnot... I was also wondering.... would 1.9 roller rockers from a SBC work, or are the ones on the l67 engine specific?

350hp... here i come... heh...

Hella awsome man.

That'll put your ass into the low 12s for sheezy.... maybe even high 11s.

Man, this car is going to be insane. Im starting to get very jealous.

The DHP's are different according to year I belive because when I ordered mine, They kept on making sure what year my car was. I believe thats the only difference. You might want to make sure that it will work with the getrag before you get it.

The rockers, I belive that they are different from the SBC's rockers. I wouldnt risk it.

Nitrous??? WOW, that thing is going to be hell on wheels. How damn fast do you want to go? Will you be able to even hook up? I could picture using a very very very small shot for cooling the S/C but I wouldnt do a 50 shot. The motor is capable of it all by its self without the nitrous. Maybe a sneaky pete or somthing.

The S/C belt can only be ran one way if Im not mistaken. There is one belt for the blower and one belt for the alt, power steering, water pump, and A,C. They run next to eachother. You might be able to mes with the other belt. Good luck man. I can't wait to hear that this thing is done. Im excited for you bro.

LOL... hell on wheels... pretty much exactly what i'm shootin for .... I figgered i'd ask about the rockers, but i'll order 'em from Intense along with the pushrods... I'll port and polish the heads and polish the blower... Im lookin at the ZZP Modular Pulley system and i'll probably get a 3.4 or 3.5 for daily driving and 3.0 or 3.25 for the strip or weekends... heh... I see how the belts are run now and everything, and i dont think theres a lot i could do... (my motor didnt have any of the belts when i got it)... nitrous... i'm still thinkin about it.... not sure if i'll do it or not... what is a sneaky pete? dont think i've ever heard of it before...

hooking up isnt a huge problem with the fiero.... its RWD, so you dont have the front wheel hop effect, and it has the weight of the motor and tranny above the wheels... altho from what i've heard 1st gear on the getrag is just for looks.... and in kevin's car he usually takes it easy in first and mashes it in second.... first gear is just really short in the getrag... a lot of guys start their car in 2nd for faster 0-60 times and such... lol... there's also the PhantomGrip LSD units and such that i can always buy and put in the dif. on the tranny... and i want to go the cheap route and ruin MANY tires, i can always weld the spiders in the dif together ... but i wont do that... LOL...

It'll probably be a good while before i'm finished... depending on how fast the funds come in and how long it takes me to design motor mounts and do alll the wiring and plumb the chargecooler and, most importantly, rebuild the motor and port the heads and put on the new rockers and... and... and...

lol... seems like i've got my work cut out for me

I'll keep y'all updated on everything i do... I have yet to find a REAL good REAL informative build diary for one of these motors in a fiero (especially when it comes to the wiring), so I think i'm gonna try and do the best build diary i can... plus it gives me an excuse to fill up the 300 picture capacity on my new digital camera MULTIPLE times I already have like 10 pictures of just the motor... lol... digital cameras rock... i just take a million random pictures and come to the computer and upload them all... haha... it eats batteries like MAD tho... need to get some NiMH rechargables...

heh...

-Daniel